PATREON PREVIEW | Thomas Walker, Navajo Peacemaker Artwork

Imagine Justice

What does justice look like, beyond the confines of State-administered carceral punishment? In Imagine Justice we hear true stories, told by the people who lived them, of irreparable harm followed by reconciliation.

These stories invite us into the possibility- and reality- of a justice that is co-created by victims, perpetrators, and survivors of violence and their communities. Each of our storytellers navigates toward peace differently, but they all give us insights that can transform the way we think about and approach justice.

Imagine Justice is created by musician, songwriter, and artist Zeo Boekbinder, whose interest in exploring processes of Transformative and Restorative Justice is informed by their time teaching and writing songs alongside incarcerated men at New Folsom Prison, which culminated in the creation of The Prison Music Project.

To submit a story for a future episode, visit https://zeoboekbinder.com/podcast

To support the show for as little as $1 per month, visit https://www.patreon.com/zoeboekbinder

Season 2 music by Katy Guillen and the Drive. https://katyguillenmusic.com/

Note: Zeo has released a lot of music under a different spelling of their name. Zoe and Zeo are the same person. Call them Zeo (like Leo), thanks!

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Imagine Justice

PATREON PREVIEW | Thomas Walker, Navajo Peacemaker

May 12, 2026 • Zeo Boekbinder • Season 2

0:00 | 7:32

If you have not listened to Season 1, Episode 2 (Rachel and Zaadii), I encourage going back to doing so. Thomas Walker was the peacemaker who facilitated the healing process in that story. I spoke with him about peacemaking and wanted to share more with you.

You can hear this full bonus episode, which is over a half hour long, on Patreon. Subscriptions start at $1 per month. Please support the show if you can. I currently pay for this show out of my own pocket, as well as doing the labor for free. This work matters so much to me. If it matters to you too, please help me make it happen. Subscribe!

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Two guys have entered my room with handguns and shotguns. I'm trying to save my dying son.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

But it was like that. I was locked in a story that I couldn't rewrite. This would not be my life forever. There was a good chance I was not going to survive at all.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

And that same evening I shot him. I said to her, I think I can't forgive you. I am Zio Bookbinder and this is Imagine Justice. This is a bonus episode. If you listened to season one, episode two, Rachel and Zodie, you heard an interview with Thomas Walker, a Navajo peacemaker. If you haven't listened to that episode, I strongly encourage you to do so. This is the extended version of Thomas' interview. It goes more into his history, how he learned peacemaking, and his description of the peacemaking process. If you want to hear the whole interview, sign up on Patreon for as little as one dollar a month. The link is in the episode notes.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

I am Thomas Walker and I'm a junior named after my father. I'm nervous. One small voice reaching out to the world, reaching anyone and everyone that has is um technology or electronic gadgets. So it's mind-boggling in that sense to be in contact. So I I thought about this, you know. My communication skills are a little bit okay because English is my second language. I I could sit here talk in Navajo, and that would be pr pretty good for conversation. So I have to cross over to the English. All my relatives live within 60 mile radius of the location that I'm at. I am a lifelong member of this area, and I um and from the southwest corner of the great Navajo Nation. And we are residents of a huge, very special, very powerful mountain. The English name for the mountain is San Francisco Peaks. It's commonly known, but to us it's Doko Osleed. Uh it it's in reference to how the snow glitters in the sunlight at the summit of the peaks. Doko Oslit, we are uh residents that are blessed to live right underneath the mountain. And and here we we some of us still maintain that the indigenous values and perspectives and language and so forth, and to be bombarded with foreign elements every minute. So many things to to to express as far as being an indigenous person ready to step into a global stage to say, okay, I have a few ideas here about uh reconciliation or uh conflict resolution in in the lives of Navajo people. Okay, so they're not structured. There aren't courses for this, as I know. I know uh there are mentors on the Navajo Nation. There are willing uh students, willing learners about the Navajo peacemaking. You know, I had the opportunity to spend time with some people, some individuals that come from different parts of our country, coming to Navajo and say we'd like to know more about peacemaking. You know, making making the um concept of peacemaking available. And unfortunately, we don't have years to spend with learners, just just an hour here, uh a few hours a week or a month, and that's about it.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

How did you learn?

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Oh, I I um did not have a choice. I um was one day called by my father, who was a peacemaker in our community, and my father does not speak or write English, but he volunteered for the Navajo Nation Courts, which is a modern day court system, judicial system with judges, prosecutors, uh defense attorneys, and court administrators, the whole system, sort of uh uh an exact replication of the American judicial system. So we have that on Navajo. Back in the early eighties, our leaders at the time, they decided to put a peacemaking program together and put it in in the court system as an alternative way to help people. As we all know, not every situation, not every problem, legal problem, civil problem, not every problem has an answer in the courts. Some of these issues and these matters, they need to be discussed at a very uh intimate or personal level. And they need to be at the community level or family level. They need guidance of wise people, wise elders, spiritual leaders. The modern day peacemaking program is a part of our judicial uh system, and how one becomes a peacemaker is up to your the community that you live in. The courts come to a community and call upon leaders to select or choose a peacemaker. So uh that's how my uh father was selected by community members, by his peers. And of course, uh, like with any kind of nomination of that sort to work for the courts, to work for the public or the community, then one must have respect and recognition from people. One must be seen as a role model. You know, there are numerous peacemakers in our communities, in our nation that are selected based on values that that they may demonstrate in community or work life or family life. So my father was uh selected as a peacemaker.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

If you would like to hear the rest of Thomas Walker's interview, go to the link in the episode notes and sign up on Patreon for as little as $1 a month. I really, really, really, really appreciate any support in making this show possible and sustainable. So thank you in advance for signing up on Patreon. There's one more episode in this season after this bonus episode. As a reminder, I'm always looking for new stories to tell on this podcast. So if you know someone with a story, if you have a story, please go to my website to submit your story. The link is in the show notes. Thanks so much. You've been listening to Imagine Justice.